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'The Wire Of Empire' Copper, Power & the Race to Mine the Future

New Pod: Vince Beiser - Metals & Resources Analyst

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Curious Worldview
October 09, 2025

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“In The Next 25 Years, The World Will Need More Copper Than In All Of Human History”

In this episode, journalist and author Vince Beiser returns to the podcast to discuss his book Power Metal, a sobering look at the metals that make modern civilization possible — and the extraordinary cost of extracting them.

We cover the story of copper — the wire of empire. Beiser reveals why humanity will need more copper in the next 25 years than we’ve used in all of history, and how that quest is reshaping geopolitics, the environment, and our very ideas of progress. From Chile’s drought-stricken Atacama mines to the e-waste yards of Lagos, Nigeria, we follow the real people and places behind our “clean-energy” future — and the dirty truths that power it.

We also unpack the rise of deep-sea mining, the billionaires behind it, and the tensions between state power, corporate ambition, and the planet’s limits. Along the way we meet Robert Friedland, Gerard Barron, Dan Gertler, and a cast of characters who prove that the world still runs on digging — and that the future will too.

If you liked The World in a Grain or stories about how our material world shapes our moral one, this conversation will hit home.

Topics: Resource wars, clean-tech paradox, deep-sea mining, copper shortage, China’s industrial strategy, EV economics, and how to reduce demand without going backwards.
Guest: Vince Beiser - author of Power Metal and The World in a Grain
Subscribe to his newsletter Power Metal Substack

Timestamps.

00:00 – Intro: Vince Beiser & Power Metal
02:00 – Chile’s Copper Boom & the Atacama Water Crisis
07:00 – Congo’s Cobalt, U.S. Retreat, and Copper Geography
10:00 – The No-Free-Lunch of the Green Transition
12:30 – Lagos E-Waste Recyclers & the Hidden Cost of Recycling
19:10 – Deep-Sea Mining and the Billionaires Behind It
23:00 – The UN vs Trump: Who Owns the Ocean Floor?
33:00 – Robert Friedland, Steve Jobs & Congo’s Mining Empire
41:00 – Corruption, Crony Capitalism & Dan Gertler
47:00 – Commodity Volatility and State Intervention
52:00 – China’s Industrial Patience vs Western Myopia
55:00 – Rethinking Cars, Cities & Demand Reduction
58:00 – The Future of Resources — and Civilization Itself

Consider sharing this interview with a mate, colleague, brother, sister, whoever you think might be interested in this as well.

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For every 5 people you bring to the newsletter, I’d send you custom merch (or something along these lines)

Now, as you know, I work full time at Quartr which means after a long days work, I am booking, researching, recording, editing and publishing a podcast plus (everything on this newsletter), and therefore only left with a few minutes for everything else that makes up a life.

And as such, setting up some type of rewards program hasn’t eventuated. BUT with that being said, I would nonetheless try to do something to incentivise you to share the show.

For the sake of transparency - about 5000 people follow the podcast across both Spotify & Apple, and several hundred subscribe to this newsletter. Not everyone listens to every episode, but so far in a 4 year lifetime I’m extremely chuffed with every new person - and I notice every. single. new. person…

To get to the point where things are monetised I’d say tripling both of those metrics is necessary.

But for now, all I can offer is camaraderie - if you are reading this now you are, and will remain the most important viewership I will ever get… and this is because you are the early adopters. So all I can do is ask… if you enjoy this and if you know anyone who think might enjoy it as well - share it with them one at a time and share it on your socials to the masses. Follow the podcast wherever you listen to it and subscribe to this newsletter and bare with me, not everything will be directly interesting to you, but I endeavour that some of it definitely will be.

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