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How Tyrants Fall & The Red Flags To Look Out For In The US

Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Zs20Bl4ftN4XPHtxnVAVB?si=ePsiyFpBSYWzT9_LL7elsg

Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marcel-dirsus-slipping-into-authoritarianism-how-tyrants/id1540424160?i=1000693767323

Youtube - https://youtu.be/MntDK3kWRek

The following is with German political scientist, former beer brewer in the Congo, and author of How Tyrants Fall - Marcel Dirsus.

Marcel interviewed coup leaders, dissidents and soldiers to write about the workings and malfunctions of tyrants. Because while the individual personas, eccentricities and reputations might make them all distinct from one another, there are more threads that draw disparate dictator's together than don’t.

I think this excerpt from the book sums up the essence of Marcel’s work and as well, the themes in todays podcast.

“The most powerful tyrants on earth are condemned to live their life in fear. They can make their enemies disappear with a snap of their fingers. They, their families, and their acolytes may control entire countries from the luxury of their palace, but they also have to spend their every waking hour plagued by the fear of losing everything. No matter how powerful they become, they cannot pay for or order that fear to disappear. If such tyrants make one wrong move, they will fall.”

The interview is about the workings and destruction of various tyrants around the world, both living and dead.

I ask Marcel about applying a prisoners of geography lens to this topic, china and the case for dictators not being all bad all the time, marcel’s rogues gallery of tyrants and as well, Marcel offers a raw reflection of the potential future of authoritarianism in the USA particularly because of the astounding moves made so far under trump. This was recorded the day after the US inauguration.

How Tyrants Fall (Book)

Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Zs20Bl4ftN4XPHtxnVAVB?si=ePsiyFpBSYWzT9_LL7elsg

Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marcel-dirsus-slipping-into-authoritarianism-how-tyrants/id1540424160?i=1000693767323

Youtube - https://youtu.be/MntDK3kWRek

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Here is a transcript of the opening exchange from the conversation…

Ryan
I you when you learn that The Economist have listed it as a Book of the Year.

Marcel
I was at home actually and I was really surprised because obviously it's my first book and obviously you hope that it's going to go well, but I couldn't have imagined that this would happen. know, pleasantly surprised. I mean, you can't expect this kind of thing, right? Because then you're inevitably going to get disappointed. So I think as far as first books go, this has probably been the best case, not just in terms of reviews, but also, you know, people have told me that they look at the news differently because they read the book.

And to me, honestly, that's probably the biggest compliment that you can get, right? Because what else are you writing a book for? Obviously, you think you have something important to say, you want people to take it on board, and if they then look at politics even a little bit differently, then it's, I think, job accomplished.

Ryan
Have you noticed anything particularly move the needle most when it comes to book sales and notoriety?

Marcel
Well, I think, you know, one of the sort of difficulties that I had when writing the book was finding the right balance between analysis and stats and studies and telling stories. And I think while I was drafting the book, I was at times on both wrong ends of that spectrum, so to say. So at some point in the draft, I think it was just too many numbers. And then I went overboard with the stories and then eventually my editor sort of forced me, you know, to get it into shape.

And that's a difficult thing to do when you're trying to write for a more general audience as opposed to just academics.

Was the editor pulling you down these laneways of just tell the most egregious, violent, shocking stories of these tyrants and you were trying to more, you know, weave a little bit of a broader arc or were they quite fair at not just hitting on that exceptional?

Ryan
I usually leave this question actually right into the end. It's probably my favorite question to ask, but because you know, you're drawn into the Congo at some stage and I read recently in your newsletter that the way this book came about is that you got an email from an editor asking whether you'd be interested in writing a book. And so just wanted to ask like, what does the role that serendipity has played in your life?

Marcel
Massive, massive. think, you know, whether it's stuff that happens to you, I think even, you know, when it comes to the kind of decisions that you make, you know, I mean, I know you had a previous episode, you know, talking about the importance of flukes and I think there's totally something to that, right? I mean, sometimes, I don't know why I make decisions, you know, they just kind of happen and things happen to you, right? Although I would also say, you know, there are ways that you can maximize your chances, right? So I mean, It's lucky in a sense that an editor reached out to me to ask me whether I might be interested in this book, but I've been working on this topic for more than a decade. So obviously, I didn't start from zero and it was a complete chance that I got that email as opposed to somebody else.

Ryan
How consciously were you inviting serendipity into your life by going to the Congo?

……. continue the conversation with the podcast here.